Guild Influence and Inactive Users

[daveb02]

This message is for all guild masters, administrators, town council people and anyone else who wants to add their two cents.  

Recently, BSW has made a change to the way the guilds have been set up by adding influence points for guild members.  Correct me if I am wrong, but if a citizen of a town is removed for inactivity or whatever reason, they are also removed from their guild and they lose all their influence points and must start over from zero.  I believe this is what happens.  If not, please correct me.

The reason I mention this is we may now be able to balance the needs of the town as well as the needs of the guilds a little better now.  IT will require a little more work for the stadtvogt but it will not be as hard as it once was.

At the end of the month, we remove people from the town for inactivity.  Would the guilds want to be notfied when we are about to remove one of your guild members so that you have the opportunity to get them a message that they may respond to and therefore remain in the guild with their influence?  And if so, what level people do you want to be notified?  All levels, influence above 50 points, etc.?  Would you even want to be notified?  PErhaps a member leaves a messagae with you that they will be on vacation, but not with us and you can relay this message.  I know there are some people that would remember to tell the guild if they will be away because of liga obligations but forget to tell their town.

Is this something you want us to do for you?  Please speak up now.  Thanks.

[mueckchen]

Hello dave,

first of all, I appreciate your effort. Especially as this problem needs cooperation and responsibility. Both are so important.

I think a guild should be informed about danger of losing a member even if the influence points are beneath 50. And a guild should inform the town when a member announces inactivity. Sometimes even months pass by without a new member joining the guild. As a guild needs members to stay agile, I would be glad to be able to talk to members (and towns) before removal from (the town and) the guild. It should be the member's interest to discuss his membership and citizenship in such a case as he will irretrievably lose his points when he will be removed. I think every guild master will accept removal after a certain amount of inactivity because this guild member is also inactive from the guild's view then. Of course removal would take place even without the guild master's acceptance as it is important for the town.

To come back to my initial statement. Perhaps there will be other towns / officials who would not initiate such a flow of information because they want to do their own thing and see themselves and their towns as an independent microcosmos - a widely spread mistake. But as removal of citizens is an almost regular work for ET (because of it's size) I agree to let information flow in both directions at the right time with you. Unfortunately there is only a single ET citizen left in the Ligretto Guild and he does not participate in any of the guilds actions and arrangements (just as an example). But as long as he fulfills the requirements to be citizen of a Hansestadt, he should have the privilege to be a guild member.
I will always prefer negotiation between towns and guilds and will participate in any of your attempts of information flow. This is part of the real job we have to do. Btw I think you are doing a great job, dave.

mueckchen

[Lardarse]

I have a quick question about this.

I assume that people no longer lose guild membership after not playing the game for 31 days - they just lose the influence race instead. Am I right?

LA

[TheBoomer]

This is a worthwhile idea but will require a tremendous amount of work.

There are 160 towns, there are almost 4000 people in those towns, there are 50 guilds. Englishtown currently has 299 people itself.

Tracks, who, what , when, why, for that many people will require a lot of work.  who's going to do that work?


<---- correction make that 300 people in ET, someone joining while I was writing this ----->



To answer Lardarse's question.  There is no longer a 31-day rule for guilds.  If you are inactive you simply do not gain more influence.  However you do not lose your influence, as long as you remain in the guild.

To gain influence, you get 1 point per day, if you have played at least 1 game in the previous 7 days.  So for a influence points, 4-5 games per month would keep you fully active.  Most cities wouldn't consider someone that played 5 games a month to be active.  They certainly wouldn't be paying for their costs to the town.

[mueckchen]

I think you can break it down to smaller parts. I believe that nobody has do deal with 4000 people or 50 guilds. Perhaps I am wrong, so feel free to correct my estimation:
Each town has to deal with its citizens as the guilds have to deal with their members. So with 30 guild members I would may have to deal with 22 towns. Perhaps a town would have to deal with 30 guilds. I can only speak for my part. When I think of how often members of the ligretto guild are removed, I see now problem for my guild. If ET has to remove 25 citizens each month, a check of guild membership had to be done 25 times (perhaps additional 10 minutes each month prior to removing) I am not sure if more than 3 or 4 cases will require a short message to a guild master. But I do not see daves idea as a pure ET issue. You could possibly  decide against daves suggestion for ET after consideration. I see it globally and really appreciate information flow, so I will discuss it with other guilds and towns.

[daveb02]

While I understand Boomer's point, I am not expecting this to be a huge issue for us or anyone else.  What I am suggesting is that if we are about to remove someone from ET who is a guild member, we can notify the guild master that we will do such.  Then the guild will have the opportunity to give us some additional information that we do not have or have the opportunity to contact the member for additional information.

As far as tracking, it will not be perfect and mistakes will be made.  But, when we identify the inactive users, we have to do the info screen to find out their level.  When that screen is open, we can also find if they are in a guild or not.  This piece really is no additional work.

Also, of the 35 people on the ET inactive list for last month that are still citizens, only 6 are members of guilds.  The small hole in this scenario is for people who remain on the list for a second consecutive month would not be checked again to see if they joined a guild.  It is highly unlikely that they would have, but there is the possiblity that someone logged in, played no games and joined a guild.  But I see this possiblity as extremely small and if an error is made in this arena, I think they should be very few.

What I see is an opportunity for the guilds and town councils to interact further but I do not see a lot of additional interaction as I do not see this as a real time consuming issue.  If it does become a major time consuming issue, then we would need to revisit the situation and look at a better way of doing things.  One would be a public publishing of the previous month's inactive user list for all the guild masters (and everyone else) to see.  I am against this as I believe this would be a lot more work for the guilds if they had to review every town's inactive list (if they wanted to publish one).

Right now, this is just a feeler for some feedback to see if it is viable for the various guilds.

[TheBoomer]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea.

I clearly would be a benefit.  I just question it from a standpoint of the work involved.

Leadership in towns change, leadership in guilds can change also.  So the contact person will change.  

In addition, you have people thar are both town officers and guild masters.  They get extra work from both sides.

We, and other towns have a hard enough time getting people to volunteer with the current amount of work required.  Adding to the workload isnt going to help that.

Boomer

[Goah]

I just want to add some words of myself. I had many problems to understand all the words you whritten before, but i try to give you my opinion in this text.

My guild has many player from your town and I think there are also many player who plays our game. I am talking from PuertoRico.
Now I get the information, that rmfnord is on your inactive list and will be in some days leave to AMRfeld.
I am happy to hear that you want to cooperate with the guild master and in generally with the guilds. I think it is also the duty of the guild master to protect eatch of the guild member.

What i can suggest you is that when a member of our guild is on your inacitve User list we will contact the persons that they get a second chance. Perhaps they didn't know that they will leave to ARMfeld, if they do not play? Perhaps there is happened something in Real Life?

Of course, when he is not answeres, then is is shown that he has no interest in guild or town and then he is not usefull for you and us!

[daveb02]

Thank you all for your input.  So far, not much response.   Does this mean the other guilds are not interested?  

If not, maybe we work only with the Ligretto and PR guilds as this would not be a lot of work.

I expect the Tichu guild would be interested.  We will see.  

daveb02

[mueckchen]

Hi dave,

perhaps your initiative has not been rumoured about enough yet. There is opposition, but there is consent with two guilds already, which should be decisiving. So we should continue discussing this with the other guilds, too (I did not do that yet, I must admit - but I will.)

regards,

mueckchen

[Lepidus]

The TA Guild will cooperate

and I'm sure the Attribut guild will too.

[daveb02]

Thanks Lepidus.  That makes so far:

Ligretto
Puerto Rico
Attribut
Transamerica

I sent a note to the San Juan guild.  They are about to lose someone fom ET on Wednesday, May 11 if they are unable to get that person to enter a residence since many people have already spoken to him and he has refused so far.  I will move this person out on May 11 if he has not taken up residence by then.