Language based SPV-channel - UMGESETZT

[Galapagos]

Hi everyone,

The SPV channel has always had (and still has) a good function: finding other players for a game. And everyone who hasn't joined a city automatically joins the SPV channel (even after leaving and saving, with the next login one enters the channel again).

But from several non-german users I've heard that they never use the channel or find it annoying, since a lot of german talk takes place. Some people even find the fact that you can leave this channel when you join a town a good enough reason to join a town.

Another thing I've noticed is that new dutch players find it hard to get started with BSW and could use a dutch channel where they can ask questions and find other players who speak dutch. The dutch community is using the Madurodam channel for 1,5 years now, but it's difficult to direct new dutch players to that channel (and save it, which can only be done if you're at least a W/K 1).

This got me thinking (I know, I shouldn't do that ). Why not create multiple SPV channels based on language setting? That would result in channels SPV, SPV-en, SPV-nl, SPV-fr, SPV-pt-br, etc. But a channel for all possible languages would become a mess. So maybe it's better that this will start with a pilot for the dutch and english languages first. On the languages page perhaps the used SPV channel can be shown then.

So I discussed this option within the dutch community and the feedback I got was: great idea, but why not use the Madurodam channel for the dutch users? This has some minor downsides for using puppets there, since I think an SPV channel should be in /mode quiet and puppets should shut up . But then again, also the almost-dead EnglishTalk channel could be used for the english users. Later all this can be done for french, italian, spanish, brazilian, etc users as well of course.

As I see it the pros are:
- non-german users are less deterred by the SPV channel.
- newbies are more easily helped (the tutor function is not always optimal while playing) and they can ask questions whenever they like.
- It's easier to meet other people with the same language settings.

The cons however:
- People tend to stick withing their own language-based community
(- The Madurodam channel will become less-used for all kinds of discussions)

Any thoughts anyone?

Gloppy

[Mahjong]

Hello Galapagos,

The SPV channel has always had (and still has) a good function: finding other players for a game. And everyone who hasn't joined a city automatically joins the SPV channel (even after leaving and saving, with the next login one enters the channel again).

But from several non-german users I've heard that they never use the channel or find it annoying, since a lot of german talk takes place. Some people even find the fact that you can leave this channel when you join a town a good enough reason to join a town.

I'm at a pc at the university, so I can't check, but in the past being able to permanently leave the SPV channel wasn't depending on if you are in a city or not but on if you have 1000 talers. To be exactly, you could always (Level 1 and up) save the setting, but if you had less than 1000 talers then the setting was ignored at startup.

Another thing I've noticed is that new dutch players find it hard to get started with BSW and could use a dutch channel where they can ask questions and find other players who speak dutch. The dutch community is using the Madurodam channel for 1,5 years now, but it's difficult to direct new dutch players to that channel (and save it, which can only be done if you're at least a W/K 1).

Well, I think there should/could be a channel Tutor-nl like there is a channel Tutoren (german) and Tutor-en (english) and I'm not sure if there is a french Tutor channel (ports are blocked here, so I can't check). The problem is, that to guide users to that channel, the newbie has to first tell that s/he is dutch.

This got me thinking (I know, I shouldn't do that ). Why not create multiple SPV channels based on language setting? That would result in channels SPV, SPV-en, SPV-nl, SPV-fr, SPV-pt-br, etc.

Not a good idea, I think. At least there should be one SPV for any languages. And having too much channels is annoying.

So I discussed this option within the dutch community and the feedback I got was: great idea, but why not use the Madurodam channel for the dutch users? This has some minor downsides for using puppets there, since I think an SPV channel should be in /mode quiet and puppets should shut up . But then again, also the almost-dead EnglishTalk channel could be used for the english users. Later all this can be done for french, italian, spanish, brazilian, etc users as well of course.

Well, that reminds me of the GlobalChat channel, where I want the chatting to go on, instead of in the SPV channel.

As I see it the pros are:
- non-german users are less deterred by the SPV channel.
- newbies are more easily helped (the tutor function is not always optimal while playing) and they can ask questions whenever they like.
- It's easier to meet other people with the same language settings.

The cons however:
- People tend to stick withing their own language-based community
(- The Madurodam channel will become less-used for all kinds of discussions)

- It gets more difficult to find opponents
- Instead of seperating chat and play (function) you are trying to seperate languages (cultural background).


My vision:

- One SPV channel for anyone (same as now, everybody looks for opponents, and uses the language he wants)
- One language depending channel for each (real) language. There chatting and first aid takes place in the language of that chat.
- language depending Tutor channels for languages where enough volunteers show up (e.g. de, en, fr, nl).

[Bergspitzmaus]

A seperate SPV-Channel for each language would be NO good possibility in my opinion.
I use the SPV-Channel maily to search for some more players, mainly where language doesnt matter. and if I write : 2 noch für XXX-spiel, i think every doutch or english person would understand it anyway...
If there are german conversations in the SPV-channel, ok, and if that is something, what annoyes a player, he can simply put the window down (not close it, otherwise it pumps up again).

if there would be a spv-channel for dutch, english etc. I can only search for german speaking players, that would be a loss of many possible opponents and players who want to join my game. specially for games where u need a few people (like 6nimmt for example), it doesnt matter if this person speaks german english, french etc, if they are not in the same spv-channel they would not read, that we need some more players....

a seperate tutor-channel for dutch as well would be a possibility, but not a seperate spv-channel and not participating in the main spv-channel for everyone. the SPV-channel is, as the short word is saying Spielevermittlung players search... and not the tutor-channel.

gruss bsm

[Ulkomaalainen]

I think the major issue here is really off topic German talk, I'll second Mahjong. While it should be okay to say "hi" if you saw a random acquaintance in SPV or to make first steps to help a newbie, the idea of some that SPV is some general talk chat for them (and, btw, nobody else than them and their friends) and they use it for every talk in my opinion isn't. And the more people (not only foreign, but probably mostly them) leave SPV the less useful it becomes. What was meant to be a tool for all apparently is handed over to a very few annoying persons and some who can stand them enough.

Since BSM raised some IMO very valid points about the disadvantages of different SPV channels for the languages, I think, too, that they wouldn't be a good idea. It would probably be better to tackle above mentioned problem, though I have no idea how (except for forcefully getting trashtalkers out of SPV which doesn't seem too good an idea). I think, some German language has to be expected on a German run site and shouldn't be too much of a problem, if you know the names of the games.

Which brings me to the idea: maybe we need lists of how different games are called in their respective regions. Could help finding the right game.

Terveisiä, Ulkomaalainen

[Galapagos]

Thanks all for your thoughts and points. I more or less agree with them all. Especially concerning the SPV. That's why I started my post with "The SPV channel has always had (and still has) a good function: finding other players for a game."

But BSW is a large place where new people get lost very quickly and find it hard to navigate around. Of course there's the tutor function, but a lot of people just want to look around for themselves first. And the thing I'm looking for is an easily accessible means of communicating in your own language where you can ask quick questions like "what does option penalties do in StreetSoccer?" (but then in their own language of course).

And of course there's the Tutor-en channel (for all languages other than german) which in my opinion works fine as it is. There are not so many people who are permanently in that channel and people searching for a tutor are in 50% of the cases that a announcement is made quickly helped (not too many people have /tutor on whith a language setting other than de). At the moment puppet Poppetje is checking for dutch players who ask for a tutor and redirects the call to channel Madurodam. It works perfect since not too many dutch players call for a tutor.

The minor thing in the tutor-en channel is that dutch people who use the "ask a experienced player for help"-option in the help tool are directed there as well. Of course, that could be altered as well (the option isn't available in the english client and I put it in the dutch one).

So back to the statement of Mahjongg:

- One SPV channel for anyone (same as now, everybody looks for opponents, and uses the language he wants)
- One language depending channel for each (real) language. There chatting and first aid takes place in the language of that chat.
- language depending Tutor channels for languages where enough volunteers show up (e.g. de, en, fr, nl).

Sounds fine with me, except leave the tutor channels as they are. If a lot of people with a specific language settings start asking for tutors this can be altered later.

So if I understand correctly, Mahjong proposes that every user who has up to 1000 taler enters both the SPV channel and a (real) language-based chatchannel. This would cover my request completely. The fact that new players automatically have 2 channels instead of 1 now doesn't seem to much of a problem for me.

Gloppy

[Ulkomaalainen]

Actually, more like 3 instead of 2 - you get ARMfeld. Though it's apparently quieting down there.

[spooz]

Many people abuse the SPV as a "General Chat Channel". If you /tell them please to do their gossip in a different channel, they just answer: "Hey, I´m a W19. I can do whatever I want. "

The Admins/Medis should stop this, and everything would be fine.

[Ulkomaalainen]

Actually, they will even start a talk in the SPV about some other guys not allowing them to talk. Some names come into my mind quite quickly here

But: The official stance by the admins on this has always been "let the guys sort out 'emselves how to use the channel, there's no official ruling on this, just tell them that SPV means Spielpartnervermittlung" - so Medis or anyone else can't do nuffin'.

Maybe we should emphasize on the difficulties this SPV abuse causes to foreigners, so they may rethink, though I doubt that.

[Lysiana]

Also für die Sprachen fr, en, nl, it, es, br-pt gibt es nun entsprechende SPV-Channel. In diesen sind alle die, weniger als 1200 Punkte haben und diese Spracheinstellung aktiviert haben. Die anderen Leute können diese Channels übers Channel-Tool normal betreten. Dies ist zusätzlich, d.h. der Standard-SPV-Channel ist weiterhin bei jedem neuling vorhanden.
Sollte bei einem der nächsten Serverneustarts funktionieren.

Ulko übersetzen sie. ;o)

[SLC]

Wobei natürlich die Frage ist,
ob man mit dem neuen Manager überhaupt
noch einen SPV-Kanal benötigt...

Grüße, SLC

[Ulkomaalainen]

There are now language based SPV-channels for the language settings en, fr, nl, it, es, br-pt. These will be automatically joined by all players with the respective language setting as long as they have 1200 points or less (i.e., a rank of W/K5 or below). These channels are an additional tool to the regular SPV channel, which they will still get additionally.

Players of higher levels can join or leave those channels using the usual means.

[Ulkomaalainen]

Wobei natürlich die Frage ist, ob man mit dem neuen Manager überhaupt noch einen SPV-Kanal benötigt...

Jo, ist nach wie vor die bequemste Möglichkeit finde ich

[SLC]

Moin, Ulko!

Wobei natürlich die Frage ist, ob man mit dem neuen Manager überhaupt noch einen SPV-Kanal benötigt...

Jo, ist nach wie vor die bequemste Möglichkeit finde ich

Bequemer, als sich einfach in einen Raum zu stellen,
zu joinen und auf Mitspieler zu warten?

Grüße, SLC

[Ulkomaalainen]

Jo, da man da im Moment noch Leuten, die ne Millisekunde nach nem Anzeigewechsel geklickt haben und gar nicht zu Dir wollten, erklären muss, wie sie wieder rauskommen

Naja, und wichtiger ist halt, dass zum Beispiel potenzielle BD-Spieler eher in nem Medina-Raum hocken und selber auf Mitspieler warten, als am Manager zu sitzen, und das nur über die SPV mitbekommen (analog mehrere Medinasucher gleichzeitig). Oder im Garten nur chatten oder schwarzkastln, bis sie auf einmal gewahr werden, "Mensch, da geht ein Verräter". Gerade für "kleine" Spiele ist SPV denke ich unverzichtbar.

Schlussendlich kann man in der SPV Dinge ankündigen, die im Manager manchmal fehlen, wie "Will ein CC mit genau drei Spielern", "Erklärrunde" und so weiter und so weiter.

Der neue Manager ist in meinen Augen ein Riesenfortschritt (wenn sich alle daran gewöhnt haben), die SPV ersetzen tut er nicht

Aber wir schwofen ab.