Dvonn time bug (or not ?)

[xandern]

I would like to mention a maybe Dvonn time bug. I think (as Dvonn Guildmaster) it is a bug, but maybe it can be argued to be a feature implemented as intended, which is just different from how I would implement it.

It is for time games. When stones need to be removed from the board, your clock will start running down until you have clicked OK for the stones to be removed (so in effect, the clock for BOTH players will be running simultaneously at that time, each clock counting down only stopping when the owner clicks OK to confirm the removal of the stones). Although in real-life games with a clock, this could never happen, both timers running down, this is a proper way to implement it, since otherwise you could miss some stones disappearing (in RL only the clock of the player making the move causing the stone removal would be running). For the other player (not causing the removal of stones) after removing the stones, he/she would be making your their own move anyway, so the clock would be running anyway.

The thing is now, that in very tight, close in time games, you might end the game making moves before the opponent does (so the opponent makes more moves than you do). With only one player still making moves, I do not think both clocks should be running when stones need to be removed. Yesterday, I won a game from quaz (which I would have lost otherwise), becuase quaz made all moves with 3 seconds to spare, after which I still had to make some more moves. In one of my moves, I cut of some stones, so quaz's clock started running again and I won the game. (quaz was probably being very satisfied with the win over me and did not realize clicking OK very fast was actually needed to win...)

In my opinion, the timer should be implemented in such a way that the clock will only start running for you if you made the move and if you will make the next move (so if you are forced to pass, it should not run).

xandern

[Ulkomaalainen]

Zusammenfassung auf Deutsch:

Wenn beim Dvonnspiel Steine abgetrennt und aus dem Spiel entfernt werden, laufen die Zeiten beider Spieler, bis sie mit OK die Kenntnisnahme bestätigt haben. Das weicht zwar von der "Real-Life"-Turnierpraxis ab (wo immer nur eine Uhr läuft, hier die des ziehenden Spielers, bis er die Türmchen nach Babel geschickt hat), funktioniert aber.

Wenn allerdings ein Spieler keine Züge mehr machen kann, die Partie sozusagen schon beendet hat, und der andere sein Soloendspiel abwickelt, dann ergibt es keinen Sinn mehr, dass beide Zeiten laufen. Im Beispiel hat ein Spieler, der keine Zugmöglichkeit mehr hatte, nach Zeit verloren, als im Endspiel noch ein letzter Abtrenner auftauchte.

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Persönliche Meinung: schon eher ein "Bug" im Sinne von so ist das nicht gewollt (sicher kein Programmierbug). Es gibt allerdings die theoretische Möglichkeit, dass ein Spieler, der schon keine Zugmöglichkeit mehr hatte, wieder eine zurück erhält. Es wäre also zu klären, wann ein Spieler "aus der Zeit" genommen werden kann.

@xandern: There is the (very theoretical, I doubt it happened more than a handful of times in real games, if at all) possibility, that a player regains the right to move after having lost it beforehand. It may even make strategic sense to let this happen. This situation would have to be covered as well. So it is difficult to decide whether a player is still in the game. My suggestion would be: the moment where none of his towers could move anymore even if the movement restriction of a free side was removed. This still leaves a very few constructed situations in which a player who could never regain movement would still be considered as "in play" (think a single black disc surrounded by six towers of three isolated on the left side of the board), but it may improve. Otherwise the PC would have to calculate all possible outcomes of a match.

[xandern]

I think the simplest and fairest rule would be to prevent me (or anyone else) from winning an undeserved game in this manner would simply be: dont start the clock when stones are being unless it has been your turn or after removal of the stones it will be your turn.
Hypothetical cases like getting turns later at a later stage, I would not take into account. If you have that little time left that you dont have time to click OK, would mean that you would run out of time (and lose) anyway when you need to make a move later.

xandern

[Puff]

There is also the problem that the player you has to move next has only have few seconds left and has to wait until his opponent finally clicks OK, keeping concentrated not to miss the precious moment. If his opponents clock does not run down anymore this will become worse and may even invite abuse.

I think there is only one straight and simple way to resolve this all: if option time is used, noone should have to acknowledge the removal of disconnected rings. I don't see any disadvantages in this. The OK-button might be helpful to newbies learning the game, but those do not use option time. Experienced players should no longer need it, especially since the fact, that some more rings were on the board just one move before, does not affect the current position in any way.

     Puff, the magic Dragon >:=>